13 Reasons Why We Must Eat Meat
1. Eating meat is part of nature. We need to do everything the natural way. That’s why we never use modern appliances and computers or never slather chemicals all over our bodies in an indoor waterfall everyday. Besides, eating plant products is ENTIRELY unnatural.
2. Eating meat will make you strong. And that’s why strict vegetarian animals such as pandas, horses, and cows, to name a few, are such weak, skinny, scrawny, anemic, helpless animals. (http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/?page=bios)
3. Meat is the only true source of protein. We all know that the millions (and probably billions due to lack of money to afford meat) of vegetarians through time just collapsed and died from protein deficiency.
4. We should eat meat because it’s tradition. We’d be forsaking our culture if we didn’t. Where would we be if we ever forsook the time-honored traditions of slavery and forcing women to work in the home and denying them access to education?
5. God told us it’s OK to eat animals. It’s in the bible! And that’s why our society heartily condones infanticide (1 Samuel 15:3, Psalms 135:8 & 136:10, Psalms 137:9), child sacrifice (Judges 11:29-40, Genesis 22:1-24), polygamy ( Genesis 4:19), slavery (Leviticus 25:44-46), and putting people to death for working on the Sabbath (Numbers 15:32-36). It’s in the bible, the ultimate moral authority!
6. There is no point for animals existing unless they exist for us to use. And that’s why our raisons d’être would become completely null and void, and we would gladly submit to an intellectually and physically superior alien race who wanted to eat our own flesh. Might is right – the only valid way of life.
7. Farm animals would quickly overrun the world if we didn’t kill them to eat them. It’s a miracle a few billion people had the space to exist before we started mass producing animals solely for meat by forcing them to breed or artificially impregnating them by the millions daily (http://www.animalvisuals.org/data/slaughter/?y=2008). Animals were EVERYWHERE!
8. Animals want to be killed to feed us. You can tell by the way they act when it’s time to die. We as humans, too, always scream in terror and thrash about and try to run when we’re having a good time!! (http://www.meat.org/)
9. Our bodies are just like a carnivore’s! That’s why we have alkaline saliva to digest starches, which are strictly found in plants; a very long digestive tract so animal flesh, which has no fiber, can sit and rot for days; and very sharp teeth and claws for biting into an animal and killing it with our bare hands. We also can outrun most animals at our blazing top speed of ~25 mph and tackle them. We were designed to kill! Even our babies instinctually try to kill animals. (http://www.naturalhealthwizards.com/Ideal_Diet.pdf , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05zhL1YUd8Q )
10. Animals don’t have feelings. They are just big pieces of meat – big pieces of meat who just happen to cry and mourn for days when their young are taken from them (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kM387cI4rk) or when they lose a companion of the same or a different species and excitedly dance when they see a beloved companion, human or nonhuman animal. Nope, all those are programmed, mechanistic, reactionary responses that are completely unlike our very divinely special human emotional responses.
11. Americans are so very vibrant and healthy from our meat-centric diet, which is why we have the some of the highest rates of cancer, heart disease, and obesity in the entire world. We eat more meat than nearly every other country in the world, so we are the healthiest. What would we do without it?
12. Most importantly, meat tastes freakin’ good. All of our morals are based on what our fleeting pleasures and hungers dictate us to do. That’s why we exalt serial killers, rapists, and pedophiles.
13. Eating meat is a sacred personal choice and right. Just as deciding to dump loads of contaminated animal waste in someone’s backyard and to unnecessarily and inefficiently use up untold amounts of fresh water is our very own personal choice that has no ramifications on anyone else in this world – human or animal. ( http://www.alternet.org/environment/134650/the_startling_effects_of_going_vegetarian_for_just_one_day/ , http://www.goveg.com/environment-WaterWeDrink.asp )
Happy meat eating! Cheers, carnivores! <3
/sarcasm
Disclaimer: To be fair, I understand if you have been brought up eating meat, and you are used to it, so you might not be inclined to change overnight. In this case, do SOMETHING. Start to cut back and learn more about vegetarianism. Find enjoyable recipes and products. Talk to other vegetarians. Just don’t close your eyes, claim ignorance or weakness, and do nothing.
By the way if you think I’m pushing my beliefs on you, you’re right, but I’m also presenting facts to you. And while you may not be actively pushing your beliefs on me, you ARE pushing your beliefs about your right to eat meat on an animal who cannot give consent for you to eat him or her. But in that case you’re not pushing just ideas and morals, you’re actually pushing your beliefs so far that you’re knowingly allowing a life to be unnecessarily terminated on your behalf.
**Edit**
Disclaimer #2: After several comments on this post, it is apparent that many people think I am attacking meat eaters. This is not the case; I am attacking and mocking the silly reasons and excuses that a lot of people give for eating meat, not the people themselves. I didn’t count a single ad hominem in this post. So if you’re offended by this, you must be seriously identifying your own self with some of these reasons. That means it’s time for you to take a step back and truly think about why you continue to take actions that bring harm and death to other sentient beings who are no different than the cats and dogs we love and treat like family.
April 24th, 2009 at 8:39 am
Wow this was a fantastic post! Love it, love it, love it! Going to bookmark it, print it out, hang it up, and hand it out!
Love your sarcasm! These are all things that need to be said.
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April 24th, 2009 at 9:37 am
Wow Lindsey that was awesome! you beat me to it! :-D Thank you!
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April 24th, 2009 at 11:59 am
Pretty comprehensive list, Lindsey, but you forgot about the meat by-products of the leather industry. It would be unethical to waste the flesh of animals after we stripped their skin off for our jackets, couches and car seats. And it would be unethical not to strip their skins off for such uses, since our interest in having fashionable and easy to clean couches far outweighs their trivial interest in their own lives.
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April 24th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
I like this post a lot! The title is great, I couldn’t figure out why this would be on a vegan blog until I read it. I must admit I still eat fish on occasion, but I’m working away from that and this list definitely gives me even more reason to stop eating meat entirely. Thanks!
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April 24th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
I’ve often thought of compiling such a list, but now no need. Well done!
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April 24th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
BEST POST EVER! I love it!!!
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April 24th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
Woo! Fantastic post. I too read the title of the post in my feeds and did a double-take, before clicking and reading. Superb use of sarcasm, and very good points made through it =]
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April 24th, 2009 at 8:17 pm
[...] the last time we ate with them there. I found a Boca lasagna that was great for a work lunch too! 13 Reasons why we must eat meat is pretty [...]
April 25th, 2009 at 4:58 am
Thanks for the love, everyone =D Glad you enjoyed it.
Leafy, Edward, Amanda, please feel free to do your own versions of this list as well if you’d like. I didn’t mean to steal the show. I just felt like having some fun last night! Thanks for the great idea, Edward!
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April 25th, 2009 at 7:28 am
Awesome post Lindsey!!! :)
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April 25th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
i know i posted my comment elsewhere, but i wanted to give you a few more hits here, too, because this is just such a fantastic post :)
i don’t like when people use the “meat tastes good” argument at all. i mean, is that why we have to cook it (when all other animals eat it raw?) and smother it in tasty PLANT-BASED sauces/condiments/spices? meat’s actually really flavorless, and we use plants to flavor it. there’s texture to it, but that’s very different than flavor and people don’t realise that. the taste argument is so freakin’ weak.
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April 25th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
This was excellent, apart from point #9. I’ve used many of these kind of defences when people complain that I’m wrong.
Although, just so you know, we aren’t *like* herbivores either, as we cannot digest cellulose which is what you refer to as “fibre”. We also don’t have teeth that continue to grow due to the constant wear and tear from eating plant matter. So please don’t use the evolution argument unless you know what you’re talking about.
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Allen Reply:
June 16th, 2009 at 6:04 pm
Great post! Thanks. Funny comments from the people who continue to eat meat too. Haha!
I love the “canine” teeth argument for eating meat. I like to point out that horses also have canine teeth, but they don’t eat meat.
Sure, humans aren’t like all other herbivores. We are not ruminants. But we are primates, not lions or sharks, and primates are mostly vegetarian. The first evidence for human meat eating is from about 2 million years ago when it appeared early humans were selectively scavenging from the kills of true carnivores. It probably helped them survive times of severe famine. But meat eating didn’t become a regular part of the human diet until fire was invented about 500,000 years ago. Prior to fire, eating raw meat was very dangerous for humans and our herbivorous physiology.
Human hunting appeared about that same time – but even still, most paleoanthropologists agree that meat was only a small part of the human diet and served as a rich supplement to our standard plant-based diet. But even still, our anatomy didn’t change much, so humans today still have the anatomy of an herbivorous primate, much like gorillas or chimpanzees.
Some people point out that chimps eat meat, but they really are mostly vegetarian. The diet of a chimp is about 95% vegetarian, 4 percent termites, and 1% small animals. But only the males kill and eat small animals. It seems to be more about establishing dominance in the troop rather than a dietary necessity. Gorillas are 100% vegan – and look how big and strong they are.
But back to human evolution. About 10,000 years ago, some people stopped being nomadic hunter and gatherers and started settling down as farmers. Since the herd animals they hunted tended to still roam around, they decided to capture them and domesticate them (enslave them). Once people figured out they could enslave animals, it didn’t take them long to figure out they could enslave other humans too. Consequently, shrotly after animal domestication began human warfare, slavery and marriage. The men of one village would raid another village, kill all the men there and then steal their women, children and animals. The women would be “married” to the men and raped. The women, children and animals would be kept as slaves.
As time passed, the wealthiest and most powerful men were the ones who “owned” the most land, animals and human slaves. They also typically had the most “wives.” These rich monarchs consumed a lot of meat, but the poor peasants were mostly vegetarian. That’s because meat was very expensive and only the very rich could afford it. Consequently, only the very rich died from things like heart disease, strokes and cancer (all have been conclusively linked to diets that are high in saturated fat, cholesterol and animal proteins). The poor died from poor sanitation practices because now that people were “civilized” they didn’t move around much. Consequently, they lived in their own filth and waste (this was before flushing toilets, sewers, and garbage disposal services). As you might expect, the poor envied th rich and wanted very much to be like them in their fancy clothes and rich jewelry. And they wanted to eat like rich people too, so meat and other animal products were considered very valuable.
Then, about 100 years ago, people invented factory farming. They relaized they could apply the same methods of mass production of cars and widgets, to living, breathing animals. So, they started mass producing and mass slaughtering farm animals. This made meat and other animal products very cheap, so now even poor people can afford to eat meat at every meal. Consequently, now even poor people die from heart disease (the top killer in the US), stroke (the #2 killer in the US), and cancer (the #3 killer in the US). Of course, mass factory production and slaughter of animals is extremely resource intensive, (it takes 10 times as much plant food and 100 times as much water to produce meat as it does to produce an equal amount of edible plant-based foods) incredibly polluting (the United Nations reports that animal agriculture is a leading cause of every major environmental problem of modern times), and completely unsustainable. In fact, Cornell University researchers say that Americans feed enough grain protein to animals in this country every year to feed all of the 800 million starving people in the world. What as waste.
So, it seems that our meat eating “tradition” has led to warfare, slavery, feudalism, poverty, disease, environmental degredation and starvation. Wow!
If evolution is about change, or adapting to the current environment, then I think it is high time people evolved back to a healthy, plant-based diet.
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April 25th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
I count 7 straw man arguments, several inappropriate comparisons, and a few salient points. Look, factory farming and the way mass-produced animals are treated are horrible, but this is vastly oversimplifying the issue. Many meat eaters try to eat free-range or farm-raised meat, and most of us are not opposed to eating vegetarian meals. I do so several times a week. By the by, humans are omnivores. That is in fact why we have these sharp teeth in the front – to tear meat off of bones. The molars are for plant food. We are designed to eat both, though many eat meat in excess, which is unhealthy, like most things in life. I know this is meant to be humorous, but I just wanted to provide an alternative viewpoint to your vegetarian/vegan readers. And, to close, I don’t think it’s wrong to be a vegetarian. But it’s not wrong to eat meat in moderation either.
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April 25th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
David – tack tack!!
Jennifer – thanks for posting your comment here too. I love it.
George – thanks for the extra info. You’re right, we’re not entirely like strict herbivores, but we are still in between strict herbivores and omnivores (dogs). Cats would be an example of a strict carnivore. However, even though we can’t digest cellulose, it’s still a necessity for us since we do have a bodily requirement for it – to help move food through our long digestive tract. But thanks again for pointing out those weaknesses.
Ted, that’s really cool you try to eat vegetarian meals more often and are more conscious about where your meat comes from, but I disagree that MOST meat eaters are looking for a humane source. What about the millions (billions?) or people that eat at fast food restaurants? Those places do NOT serve humane meat. You’re absolutely right that it’s the excess of meat that’s a problem and is unnatural, and I’m not denying that meat in moderation can be OK for some people’s health (others, depending on their metabolic type are MUCH healthier without any meat), but when we have healthy vegetarian alternatives, why bother taking an innocent life to eat, other than for the sole reason you like the taste of that meat? If you lived in an area where meat was the only thing to eat (like if you were an Eskimo), I would understand, you would need it for survival, but in most developed countries, we have a plethora of food that doesn’t involve taking a life.
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May 27th, 2009 at 12:27 am
What about milk? I believe there is a much stronger argument against consuming milk (of all animals, not just cows) than there are for meat. I agree with all the points you presented (I’m speaking from a vegan standpoint as well), but milk is MUCH more unnecessary than flesh. I’m sure you know the reasons. They are all a matter of common sense.
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Lindsey Reply:
May 27th, 2009 at 3:32 am
Danielle, great point! I didn’t want to make this list into about 100 items; I wanted to stick to one topic to really drive the point home. I actually do have a recent post about milk – it’s not sarcastic like this one, but it talks about how unnatural it is. http://www.veganise.me/vegan-faq-1-milking-backyard-cows
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May 27th, 2009 at 1:31 am
Ugh, I’m omnivore and proud. You know why? Broccoli has feelings too, who hears the cries of the cabbage?
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Lindsey Reply:
May 27th, 2009 at 3:38 am
Right. Because broccoli and cabbage both have central nervous systems and are feeling beings with five senses just like animals. And tell me how does something scream with no MOUTH? And how does one feel with no LIMBIC SYSTEM? If those are truly your reasons for being an omnivore, why would you be so proud of something not based in fact or logic?
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kinch Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
Actually plants do scream, in their own way. Times Online did an article saying, “When a leaf or a stem is sliced, the plant signals pain (or perhaps merely dismay) by releasing the gas ethylene over its entire surface.” There was a study done by physicists at the University of Bonn where they developed a device that allows them to analyze and hear the emission.
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Lindsey Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
In reply to comment
An audible scream, such as the one humans and animals can produce, has the purpose of communication – to either let another know to stop doing something or to call for help. A chemical “scream” wouldn’t even compare. Releasing a chemical does not even fit within the definition of a scream. We don’t have chemical spectrometers on our body to inform us what a plant is doing biochemically, but we do have auditory and visual receptors that let us know when a human or animal is in distress. That’s because for a plant, it’s not relevant for us to know. In releasing ethylene, which is surely not even a conscious response, a plant is not exactly trying to communicate with us. The ethylene has a far different purpose than that of a very aware and conscious scream, just as adrenaline in our body has a chemical purpose when we’re in trouble. Comparing releasing ethylene to screaming is the same thing as saying humans releasing any type of hormone is similar to screaming. Whatever device that physicists at Bonn used did not “hear” anything. It wasn’t picking up physical pressure waves in the air, i.e. sound. Plants don’t have a mechanism to generate sound waves anyway. What they were doing was no different than analyzing the chemicals in human blood during a time of distress.
Of course plants are going to emit some type of chemical in response to stress. Ethylene is the chemical that hastens the ripening of fruit (to spread their seed as soon as they can if they’re going to die) or to repair damaged tissue. Even if an individual plant might die, its neighbors might have a better chance of living on if they are sensitive to that chemical. It ensures a better chance of survival for the species. And before you say this indicates a human/animal-like desire to live on, plants don’t have to be consciously aware or able to feel pain or fear in order to possess mechanisms that ensure the survival of the fittest.
The kind of physical pain that all animals know requires a central nervous system. Dismay is an emotion which requires a limbic system in a brain which is, again, part of the central nervous system.
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Bea Elliott Reply:
June 19th, 2009 at 5:50 am
Hello & great reasoning in your reply… It’s all quite clear to me why plants don’t experience “pain” the same way an animal does… But because I too have enountered many inquiries from those who just don’t/won’t get it I put it as simply as I could to help others understand. May I contribute this:
http://beaelliott.blogspot.com/2009/03/live-vegetables-vs-dead-animals-vegan.html
May 27th, 2009 at 2:04 am
I’m omnivorous, stumbled here because I selected veganism and vegetarianism (I’m curiousin a good way). I noticed that you’ve cited scripture…. I think vegan folks will like this part: before Jehovah permitted Noah to eat meat, eating meat was not practiced. Duh, right? Well, did Methuselah and his kin live to be 900+ years eating meats? Hmmm? Before eating meats, men lived several hundreds of years. After eating meats? Hmm…. Food for thought!
I think vegans have the right path.
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Lindsey Reply:
May 27th, 2009 at 3:34 am
Hi! Welcome! It’s great that you’re considering veganism :) I’m not Christian or Jewish myself, but I’ve read through the entire bible, and there is nothing in it that prevents people from being vegetarian or vegan. Nice to hear that you’re thinking in that direction :)
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May 27th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
First, so there are no questions, I am a meat eater and to be honest my diet consists of mostly meat. And yes I am fat. I have for some time tinkered with the idea of moving to a more vegetarian-centric diet, but like most of my meat eating fellows have been ignorant on all the ins and outs of a this diet.
I do understand that your post is heavily laden with sarcasm, but is also very accusatory. The term more flies with honey than vinegar comes to mind. It is a well know writing ploy used to engage your audience, but your message left me wanting nothing to do with it. I would have been more moved and engaged in discussion if your points were informational and encouraging. Your anger shows through and it does not build a stronger case for you, rather it creates a bigger division between these two camps
I was very turned off by this article, not because of the truth of how hard meat is on our bodies and the need to look for nutrition in better sources (i.e. plants, that are ALOT easier on the body to digest and absorb) or even for the unethical treatment of animals that are bred for slaughter… but rather I was repulsed by the way you attacked Christians and any one else (i.e. comparing meat eaters to rapists and pedophiles) that has a differing point of view seemed to be put in the line of fire. After all vegetarianism is not a new life style, not even for the Hebrews (which is where Christianity comes from)… several places in the bible have shown where several men/women of God choose not to partake of eating meat. But that is beside my point; your anger has alienated your audience. That is a poor way to convert anyone to your cause. I hope you can come to terms with your anger and use it in a constructive way that does not remove potential people from this healthier life style, but instead educates them.
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Lindsey Reply:
May 27th, 2009 at 7:07 pm
Thank you for the input, but how wrong of you to assume that this is the only way I try to promote a vegetarian diet. This is one post. And maybe it didn’t appeal to you, but people come in all types, and some people do respond to this kind of tone. Some do need to be shaken into awakening.
As far as my anger, animals are like children to me. If billions of people were happily supporting the imprisonment, torture, and murder of your children everyday, mostly in the name of taste, wouldn’t you be a little angry and indignant too?
All meat-eaters who have freely chosen their diet are in the “line of fire” because they are all contributing to the problem of cruel animal exploitation and environmental destruction.
Attacking the bible is not the same as attacking Christians. Also, I wasn’t even attacking the bible as a whole – I’m attacking the commonly held view that if it’s in the Bible, it must be good and morally right. I do believe there is some good in the bible. There is danger when people think it is ALL good and use it to justify harming others.
And yep, I stand by what I said that what meat-eaters do really isn’t much better than what pedophiles and rapists do. Sure, most meat-eaters are very lovely people in the respect that they may never harm another human, but their commonality with those criminals is that they are taking actions which result in the harm and death of an innocent NON-CONSENTING being, so maybe they are actually even worse since not only are the animals harmed, they are killed as well – not all pedophiles and rapists kill. No difference between humans and animals when it comes to feeling fear and pain and desiring to live a long, high-quality life.
It seems like you’re just trying to use one vegetarian who bothers you to justify writing off the whole movement and to continue feeling satisfied with your meat habit. I hope this is not the case.
I’m truly sorry if I offended you in any way, but I hope you will not waste your time thinking about what I could have done better or how I could have been less angry and instead start thinking about what your actions – buying and creating demand for meat – are doing to innocent beings who have done no wrong to you.
If you are serious about moving toward a vegetarian diet and would like something more informative and encouraging, there are numerous resources out there that are very gentle – just Google.
To get you started: http://www.google.com/search?q=vegetarian+starter+kit
All that being said, I would be happy to help you in a friendly way if you need any assistance in making your diet healthier and kinder to animals.
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May 27th, 2009 at 7:39 pm
Thank you for pointing me to your previous post, I had stumbled this one and did not bother to peruse the site for milk-centric posts. I have yet to read it in its entirety, but so far it has been great, a definite bookmark.
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Lindsey Reply:
May 28th, 2009 at 3:49 am
You’re very welcome – thanks for visiting :)
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May 27th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
Thanks for posting this. I’ve been considering going vegetarian for a while and have been cutting back but this has made me decide to try that more actively and less passively. The “meat tastes good” argument was one I haven’t heard before and the one I was waiting for. No longer will “I like meat too much” be a reason for eating it for me.
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Lindsey Reply:
May 28th, 2009 at 3:47 am
Hi Kate! Good for you! I wish you best of luck on continuing down that path. Even if it takes some time, that’s OK – just keep working at it.
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May 28th, 2009 at 12:57 am
i cant believe you are that iggnorant
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Lindsey Reply:
May 28th, 2009 at 3:37 am
And you, Mr. Lover, are ignorant of the English language. Care to give me the facts that demonstrate my ignorance?
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kinch Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
Psst…Correcting English makes you look petty. I understand that you would like to hear what actual arguments he has, but mentioning that he accidentally typed an extra “g” in his post and implying (well you outright said it) a general deficiency in the English language undermines any argument you make after doing so.
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Lindsey Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 8:35 pm
In reply to comment
I saw many other spelling and grammar mistakes in comments and didn’t correct them. I’m sure I made some too. You missed the irony. Besides, he didn’t even provide a single bit of legitimate content to debate. He was getting what he was asking for in writing a useless comment like that. I was just dishing out what he gave me. Fair enough.
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May 28th, 2009 at 2:02 am
hahaha this was amazing.
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Lindsey Reply:
May 28th, 2009 at 3:37 am
Thanks much =D
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May 28th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
I really like this post! My boyfriend has been vegetarian his whole life and has never even tried meat EVER! He’s possibly the fittest and healthiest person I know. When I met him I decided to become vegetarian (he never asked me to) and its one of the best things I’ve done. I’ve been less ill and feel healthier. People always ask about my iron content and don’t realise there’s lots of it in dark green leafy veg :)
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Lindsey Reply:
May 29th, 2009 at 5:01 am
Hi, Nicky! That’s so cool to hear about your boyfriend, and good for you for deciding to be vegetarian :) Thanks for sharing about the leafy greens – not only are they high in iron but also calcium and tons of other important things as well.
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May 30th, 2009 at 2:15 am
the bible promotes vegetarianism:
1. Genesis 1:29 (seeds n fruits for Adam)
2. Genesis 3:18,19 (herb n bread after Adam n Eve left garden of eden)
when God created the earth it was intended for man to only eat vegan diet.
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Lindsey Reply:
June 4th, 2009 at 3:29 am
I love those verses, and people usually claim that after the “fall of man” people were given meat to eat. Well, I say that if humankind really wants to return to an Eden-like world, we need to take several steps in our personal lives, but changing our diets is a huge factor to achieving this ideal, nonviolent world. And to be like the Eden in the bible, it is a requirement that we all return to being vegan. Thanks for sharing.
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May 30th, 2009 at 2:55 am
Though I am not vegetarian, and not really planning on being a vegetarion (for health reasons) I do like your post and it does move me very much, but also does insult me. I feel as if it’s wrong to be what I am, and I think it’s only part of human nature to eat meat, because that is how we have always done so. Maybe not because we have to, but that is how we’re raised and it’s only our way of life to be a part of the food chain.
And on the other hand I completely agree with you, what we’re doing defines all the things we hate. We don’t need all these things, creating and killing animals is unnecesary now. But some of us still hold on to what we had.
And then there are people like me, who can’t just go changing my diet because I don’t want meat anymore. Is that so wrong that it’s something I can’t have, so it makes me a bad person? I hope not.
But by and by I just wanted to say that your post is very humorous but still giving off the strong statement that many of us should follow. I will continue to read your posts :)
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Lindsey Reply:
June 4th, 2009 at 3:43 am
Hi Sam, I appreciate the comment. I understand where you’re coming from in that it’s human nature to eat meat. However, it’s not so much human nature as it is cultural conditioning. It’s human nature to be hungry and to eat, but it’s not dictated in any way by our bodies that we need to eat meat. Many people are brought up vegetarian and have never even had a piece of meat in their lives, and obviously they’re not any less human :)
I am curious to know about your health requirement for eating meat. Someone who truly needs meat for health reasons is exempt from my criticisms, but I’ve never heard of anyone who actually needed meat since all the nutrients in meat can be found in plant and bacterial/fungal products. Many doctors are completely ignorant of nutrition and, in fact, take less than 3 hours of nutritional training in medical school. Usually even this is optional. Even registered dietitians are educated in a very meat-centric way. Vegan dietitians are really pioneers in their field, and they would be able to tell you how to satisfy any nutrient needs you had without animal products. I do not know your exact situation, but I wanted to point those few things out, just in case no one has mentioned them to you before.
Eating meat doesn’t really make someone a bad person if they think they need it for health reasons or if they just don’t know how to change their diet. There are other cases too. But those who knowingly and proudly put their taste buds and convenience ahead of a priceless animal life are not exactly the most moral people.
I hope that addresses all or most of the points you made.
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May 31st, 2009 at 12:01 am
I enjoyed this essay, however I have to disagree majorly with point number 2. All animals listed under that point all have specialized GI tracks to extract the nutrients in plants. If they lacked these traits, they would most likely not be as strong as you suggest.
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Lindsey Reply:
June 4th, 2009 at 3:18 am
Thank you, Marc, for this information. I will definitely keep this in mind if I ever bring that point up again.
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June 2nd, 2009 at 3:44 am
your points about plants not having a limbic system “And how does one feel with no LIMBIC SYSTEM?” show an ignorance of the scope of possible experience in the plant community. there have been scientific studies which show that plants indeed exhibit emergency responses to danger and physical harm in a way similar enough to other sentient creatures that it was able to be recorded using the same EEG equipment used to measure brain activity in mammals. while I will concede the horrors of the factory farms which produce meat, equal horrors are occurring daily in factory farms which produce vegetables in assembly line fashion (organic farms included). the fact is, it is necessary for us to destroy/convert other life forms in order to provide nourishment for our own life form and it is balance/sustainability we should be striving for, and empathy encouraged, not sympathy, as I fear is the driving force behind most vegetarians. when we awaken to the entirety of the destruction being wrought in the name of modern agribusiness/factory farming we realize that the mass production of even vegetables is as unsustainable a solution as any in the meat production industry. if we were able to return to the practices of our hunter gatherer ancestors we would be able to eat as much meat and plant matter as the ecosystem provided us with little trouble for either us or the greater ecosystem, but unfortunately, for the moment, that is not an option for most of us. in the interim I see the arguments between carnivore/omnivore/vegetarian as no different than so much bickering between the various political parties which waste valuable time on the myriad non-issues as opposed to making movements toward truly sustainable lifestyles.
[Reply]
Lindsey Reply:
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:53 am
Interesting comment.
Plants do not have a brain and therefore do not have a limbic system. I am not ignorant of those studies on plants, and it is unfair for you to assume so. I am aware of the studies where plants were hooked up to polygraph machines and exhibited fear-like responses to certain stressors. I plan to write a post addressing these issues for people who always retort to the vegetarian position, “but what about plants?” Let me give a very brief couple of points from this future post. Number 1 – what does your conscience tell you if you were to have an animal and plant side by side and you jabbed each with a hot poker? Wouldn’t you feel worse about hurting the animal since it can scream and run away? Doesn’t it just naturally seem more wrong to you? Are you also suggesting that we completely level the playing field based on the fact that everyone exhibits “emergency responses” and slaughter humans for food as well? Plants cannot move. These emergency responses are not necessarily pain. The pain response in a plant would have no evolutionary value and would just be torture for the plant since it can’t get itself away from a bad situation. Number two – If you are really, truly concerned about the welfare of plants, then you are doing them a grave disservice by eating them secondhand in animal meat. Ten times the plants need to be “slaughtered” to produce the same weight in meat that you can eat directly in plants. You are causing LESS plant pain and NO animal pain by eating a vegan diet. I hope you continue to think more deeply about this issue. And this is nothing like politics. Vegetarians aren’t fighting for power or money. They truly are concerned about animal suffering and want to see its end. That’s it.
[Reply]
kinch Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
“no different than so much bickering between the various political parties which waste valuable time”
And don’t forget religious groups. Really, I have no problems with the various “-vores” (Just like I have no problem with the various religions and politicos), but everyone just has this overwhelming urge to be right. That’s the power that vocal vegetarians are looking for. This isn’t really about animal suffering, it’s about you wanting to justify your way of life. Of course, that is the human existence, to justify it. You aren’t arguing that because of our meat consumption, we are obese. You aren’t arguing for better animal rights. Why? Because that would require tolerance of someone who thinks differently than yourself. And honestly, that really does make you like a politician.
[Reply]
Lindsey Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 8:35 pm
In reply to comment
“You aren’t arguing for better animal rights. Why? Because that would require tolerance of someone who thinks differently than yourself.” That doesn’t even make sense. Tolerance for others is a good thing, but it’s not an inherent requirement to argue for any kind of social reform.
Please read this comment . I respected what you had to say until you claimed to know my true motive – to be right. Contrary to your false assumption, this IS about animal rights. If I truly cared about being right, then I would be spouting off my various spiritual and political beliefs too to make sure I was “right” in every way. This is activism, buddy. Are you implying that Martin Luther King, Jr. advocated nonviolence and civil rights for blacks just because he wanted to be RIGHT?? Or that all the human slavery abolitionists fought against slavery just because they had some raging ego need to fulfill? This is a social justice movement, and I am an animal slavery abolitionist. Please don’t assume something of someone you don’t even know.
[Reply]
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:40 pm
It is scientifically safe to say that eating more than a very little meat, especially sick, mass produced meat will make you fat and sick. There is no evidence to suggest that eating an all vegan diet is at all times the best for all people. Lumping all meat eaters into one “evil” category may be funny to you and others, and may as you said get someone to change their views or diet. That dose not make it right. The ends justifying the means combined with the villainization of those with whom we choose to see more difference than similarity have paved the way for nearly every atrocity we humans have ever committed. I applaud and share your empathy towards other living things. I hope you can show the same inclusive compassion towards people who eat meat.
Saying that meat eaters have “….commonality with those criminals [rapists, murderers]is that they are taking actions which result in the harm and death of an innocent NON-CONSENTING being” is a statement full of hate, poor logic, and hypocrisy. I have yet to know any omnivore who loves the act of killing animals. (although I’m sure they are out there… most hunters are not in it for the love of killing) Many people do dissociate the death of what they eat with their meal, but that dose not make them deprived. You show the same blind-spot. All of our lives displace, kill, poison, and starve trillions upon trillions of non-consenting animals simply by our human existence but you offer yourself up as morally superior because you do not kill to eat.
All life takes life, but our modern way of factory farming is disgusting. It has destroyed the give/take relationship humans have had with animals for thousands of years, and it brings tears to my eyes to think of what is done in the name of plentiful, cheap meat. But those unsustainable and morally objectionable farming practices are not to be confused with the eating of meat itself. I know that some people will always need to eat as least some meat. All the more reason for those of us who care for the well being of animals to find and support a small farmer with happy cows in organic green pasture, and healthy chickens with space to roam. If we who care do not support the true loving husbandry of our animal companions who will?
You may find your assumptions about the unsavory and immoral relation between humans and animals challenged (and perhaps feel little better about your fellow man) by reading “The covenant of the wild – Why animals chose domestication”
http://books.google.com/books?id=wKO6GFaVpRAC&dq=the+covenant+of+the+wild&source=gbs_summary_s&cad=0
[Reply]
Lindsey Reply:
June 4th, 2009 at 3:13 am
“The ends justifying the means combined with the villainization of those with whom we choose to see more difference than similarity have paved the way for nearly every atrocity we humans have ever committed.”
The method that I happened to choose in this situation is not some atrocious physical war that I am waging. Plus I am in no way advocating harm to any meat eater, so I don’t see how you can imply that writing a post with a tone like this will result in an atrocity comparable to the Crusades or whatever other horrible historical events you meant.
I fail to see how comparing meat eaters to criminals who prey on non-consenting beings is poor logic. Did you not see that I did concede that most meat eaters get along just fine with their fellow humans and are nice people? Does this sound like hate to you? I suppose I should add that most wouldn’t even harm an animal given the chance, but the point is the ACTION they take (buying and consuming meat) is contributing to the destruction of a living being who has done no wrong against them nor has given them permission to eat them. You also claim that most meat eaters don’t enjoy killing. I could also say that some (most?) criminals don’t exactly like what they do, but it is just some sick, sociopathic impulse they have. Most “normal” people don’t have these impulses and can actually think and stop themselves from taking actions that harm non-consenting beings – including animals for food. So thank you for leading me to another point in how meat eaters can be considered worse than some of these criminals. Overall, in examining a whole life, I won’t say that meat eaters are worse because those criminals are most likely all non-vegetarians in addition to their crimes against humans. In the strange case of an ethical vegetarian criminal, I would say that this criminal would be on at least equal terms with a socially normal meat eater. Let me qualify these meat eaters. People who eat meat out of true necessity, such as the Inuit, are not comparable to these criminals, but people who DO have a choice to be vegetarian and don’t take that choice are fair game for comparison. Also, a child who is fed meat and has no other option would not be comparable. Most people are not meat eaters out of necessity. It is entirely simple and viable to be a healthy vegetarian in most parts of the world today. When the choice is there, it is sick that someone would consciously choose death on their plate. And it is the height of hypocrisy, since you said yourself most people don’t like killing animals. So they are viscerally repulsed by an act but they happily support someone else performing it for them? I wouldn’t like killing my kids, and I (or the kids) certainly wouldn’t be any better off having someone else do it for me. One more thing, most meat eaters dote on cats and dogs and scream outrage when one of these sweet animals is murdered by some crazy. However, they vehemently defend their right to consume products resulting from the murder and abuse of other domesticated animals (who are just as intelligent and emotional as cats and dogs) just to be food on their plates. How morally schizophrenic is that?
You mentioned a lack of compassion for meat eaters. Did you not read the disclaimer? It relieved some of the blame from the individual meat eater and showed some understanding for him or her.
That is really wonderful that you seem to care about animals, but WHY – WHAT drives you to continue consuming them? I urge you to visit humanemyth.org and http://www.humanemyth.org/mediabase/1013.htm
Thank you for the book recommendation. If I have some time, I will check it out. I do like to hear more from another side of an issue..
Let me leave you with this – instead of dealing with the complications of reforming farming practices, why not just take the action (eliminating animal product use) that if everyone also took it, it would mean the abolition of exploiting animals for their products, which would in turn bring about the abolition of atrocities committed against these animal slaves in the food industry, since there would no longer be a need to keep these slaves.
[Reply]
June 6th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
What if I just like eating meat? I’m an omnivore who’s careful about where the products I consume come from and how the animals are treated. What right do you have to judge me for that, or try and make me feel guilty for eating meat?
[Reply]
Lindsey Reply:
June 6th, 2009 at 7:56 pm
Please read Disclaimer #2 in the post. There’s not a single thing in the original post that says “meat eaters are this” or “meat eaters are that”. That would be a judgment of a group of people. I was judging the REASONING people use for eating meat.
Many vegetarians enjoyed the taste of meat if they once ate it. I know I liked all sorts of animal products. Does how something tastes really justify taking an innocent life for it? What if your dog or your child tasted good? Would that be a justification for killing them?
[Reply]
June 6th, 2009 at 5:09 pm
Hmmm… I think you have completely missed my points. Especially about the dangers of villainizing people with who you disagree . “Overall, in examining a whole life, I won’t say that meat eaters are worse because those criminals are most likely all non-vegetarians in addition to their crimes against humans. In the strange case of an ethical vegetarian criminal, I would say that this criminal would be on at least equal terms with a socially normal meat eater.” Do you really think someone who eats a little grass feed beef from there own small organic hobby farm is inherently morally compromised? Really?!? MANY people NEED a SMALL amount of animal food to be healthy. I hear your ethical objections to eating animal products. Imposing your own view as “The One Right Way” is the same dogmatic selectively informed bullshit that…. Christ, why am I bothering writing anything. Look. I’ve been a vegetarian for most of my life, a vegan, a raw vegan… My health is by far the best on MOSTLY raw MOSTLY vegan food with a little local small farm animal products. You can keep struggling to make the facts fit your ethics, or you can open yourself to reality. Another reading recommendation that agrees with everything you say about how torturing animals is wrong, but disagrees that a vegan diet is rite for everyone. http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/vegetarianmyth05032009/
[Reply]
Lindsey Reply:
June 6th, 2009 at 9:09 pm
“MANY people NEED a SMALL amount of animal food to be healthy. ”
What makes you a dietary authority? Even if you have studies to cite, there are probably a million and one to contradict them because that’s how nutrition science is – a bunch of not very well controlled studies. It’s really hard to draw conclusions based on the volumes of contradicting research out there.
And what about the millions of completely healthy vegans and vegetarians in the world? I highly doubt that those millions of healthy veg*ns all have the same genetic profile which is prone to accepting a vegetarian diet. I, for one, know that I don’t. I’m so “selectively informed” that I know that I would do very well on a heavy red meat, high fat diet because I fit the metabolic profile for those kinds of foods. However, I found the plant-based foods that are comparable, and I feel completely fine and completely satisfied at every meal. I’m not a dietary authority either, and I don’t like to promote vegetarianism for health reasons because I DO recognize diets with small amounts of certain animal products are not necessarily any worse in terms of health. I will say the following though. Any nutrient that can be obtained from an animal product can be obtained from a plant, bacterial, or fungal product. Anyone who gets sick on a vegetarian or vegan diet has not planned his diet well. Even the American Dietetic Association maintains the position that a well-planned vegetarian or vegan diet is appropriate for ANYONE in ANY stage of life. I do commend you for eating only small amounts instead of the average amount most people do, but is your health really that much worse off without this small amount ofmeat?
From http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/vegetarianmyth05032009/
You can get plenty of protein and fat on a vegan diet, as well as keep your blood sugar stable. These characteristics are not exclusive to an omnivorous diet.
What’s to say her illness wasn’t brought on for psychosomatic reasons? Even worse back then than it is now, people constantly would tell veg*ns that they were going to get sick and die. She probably lived with this fear in her subconscious (or very much in her conscious mind) for all those years, and her body responded. Not saying that’s what happened for sure, but it’s a possibility. Or how do we know that she wasn’t genetically destined to get this sickness? She may have improved after eating some animal products, but again, if you feel something is going to help you, you’ll feel better – placebo effect. I wouldn’t be surprised if she could have been given mock meat the whole time and felt better.
Correlation != Causation What about improved medical technology or improved access to healthcare?
Since WHEN have Americans done what health experts have told them??? What’s to say they haven’t gotten sicker from the growing portions of McDonald’s they’re cramming done their throats? Also, the reduction in fat means probably a huge increase in refined carbs, high fructose corn syrup, and sugar which are all far worse for health than fat is.
Yeah, because a veg*n diet is required to be one low in fat…. And vice verse, omnivorous diets can NEVER be low in fat.
I agree. But vegetable oils are a processed, non-whole food – of course people are going to be sick from the amounts they eat! Especially since the oil consumption has gone up so much because fast food places have switched from frying things in more stable saturated fats to frying them in vegetable oil – producing trans fats, which our bodies can’t even handle. Eating vegetable oils is not a mandatory characteristic of a veg*n diet. Plenty of healthy saturated fat is available from coconut products for veg*ns.
Nonetheless, some parts of the book look interesting, and again, if I have time I’ll read through it, but I’m certain, in just reading through that post, that it’s not going to convince me of any need for meat.
Reading material for you, or shall I call it selective, narrow bullshit -
http://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Vegan-Complete-Adopting-Plant-Based/dp/1570671036
(very comprehensive and unbiased book on vegan nutrition written by a 30 year vegan who is a registered dietitian)
And I hope you’ve read this one too -
http://www.amazon.com/China-Study-Comprehensive-Nutrition-Implications/dp/1932100660/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_c/191-6582684-8312712
“Do you really think someone who eats a little grass feed beef from there own small organic hobby farm is inherently morally compromised?”
Yep, pretty messed up if they consider killing any sentient being a hobby. Again, probably not morally compromised among humans but in the overall picture to include nonhuman animals – morally schizophrenic, certainly.
[Reply]
^_^ Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
“What makes you a dietary authority?”
Maybe he’s Tim Strand, you don’t know that.
[Reply]
Lindsey Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 7:28 pm
In reply to comment
He should have said so then. The point is that no one really can claim to know the most nutritious diet for most people.
[Reply]
June 9th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
OK. You win. Me and the Dalai Lama are amoral criminals. You are a saint.
[Reply]
Lindsey Reply:
June 9th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
You have taken up defense for yourself and blinded yourself to my motivation entirely. I’m in no way looking for recognition of myself. I couldn’t care less if people think I’m the scum of the earth. I’m vocal and uncensored about this not because I want to shout “I’m right! I’m right! I’m right!” – that’s petty and a horrible waste of time and energy – but because I want people to wake up to what they’re permitting to happen to animals on their behalf and to stop justifying their participation in these horrible crimes against them. And I’m not going to absolve anyone from these crimes when they’re perfectly aware of what they’re doing and of the absence of necessity for them. But, fine, actually, aware meat eaters are not criminals by definition since you have to commit a crime to be a criminal. It is still legal to kill animals for reasons other than self-defense. Does that make everything done within the law moral?? Of course not, since slavery, sexism, and racism all used to be legally legitimate. It’s time to begin to extend our laws to include protection of the lives of different species and to criminalize those who break those laws.
I know you’ve told me that you’re against horrible treatment of animals, and I’m glad you care to that extent. I am against that too obviously, but beyond that, even if the animals are treated nicely, who says animals are ours to decide when they die as well? You, not I, must be the saint since you act as one of the right-hand men of God in deciding when these animals should die by your hand. By the way, how does anyone kill an animal whom they raised with special care? The animal becomes like a pet. It’s almost a requirement of truly humane farmers to detach from caring for the well-being of this animal to save themselves from emotional trauma when it comes time to kill him or her. And what of the terror that rushes through the animal when he or she senses death is near? Turns out one’s meat isn’t so perfectly happy after all. There is no such thing as compassionate killing of a perfectly healthy being.
In any case, I wish you well. I apologize if through any of this that I came off wishing ill upon you. I seriously just want people to let animals live freely the extent of their entire natural lives, just as we humans want to do the same. The Dalai Lama is a wonderful person, but we shouldn’t look to just one person for guidance, and just because they do something (eat meat) means that it’s a morally acceptable thing to do. No one is perfect, including the holiest among us. However, that doesn’t mean we should become complacent and shouldn’t strive to be. The DL leads a lifestyle in which he probably travels to remote parts of the world where there is just about nothing to eat but meat and must make concessions. I do not think it would be fair to say that someone should starve instead of eating some meat to survive. Most people in developed countries where foods choices are abundant and diverse do not have a lifestyle like the DL, and with a little effort, can transform their life to be free of animal products. It’s childish (not you, just in general) to say well if he who’s more of an authority figure on morality is not giving up meat, then I’m not either. Please continue to rethink your consumption of animals.
[Reply]
June 12th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
When I see articles like this, I’m often reminded of Bill O’Reilly and Shirley Phelps-Roper. Oh yes that’s right, I’m putting you on the same platform as an ultra-conservative and woman who honestly believes that 9/11 is God’s punishment for homosexuals. Oh but it’s all in the name of satire, so I can do that. Please just step off your sanctimonious high horse, other people need to use it.
[Reply]
Lindsey Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 8:36 pm
Those people you mentioned are claiming something completely irrational for which they have no evidence. I’m discussing a tragedy that is being perpetuated by REAL people, not by someone’s definition of a god and their ideas of his/her motives. Also, Roper advocates hate. Nowhere in the post or comments have I said that I do or we should 1 – hate a meat eater, 2 – be intolerant of meat eaters as people. Not tolerating an action that brings harm to other beings is entirely different than not tolerating a person. Your comparison is invalid.
Notice how you’re not contributing anything useful to the discussion. You’re simply trying to draw attention away from the topic and direct it at me. Your plants comment was constructive and relevant – the rest not so much so. Either try to actually make some good points and tell me how my reasoning is wrong or go take your psychoanalysis skills somewhere else.
You’re on as much of a crusade as you think I am by attempting to demotivate people who are actually trying to change the world for the better. Your judgmental comments make you appear just as smug and self-righteous as you believe I am.
[Reply]
mrw Reply:
August 6th, 2009 at 10:14 am
you mister kinch need to come to your senses and understand that you yourself are on a high horse i don’t care for the references that you are making to this post being that they have absolutely no relevence to the veg lifestyle you are just waiting for something to correct and make your self look like a jack ass
do some research of your own and you can realize that every lifestyle contradicts it’s self in some way and i bet your’s does too.
[Reply]
June 14th, 2009 at 6:08 am
“plants don’t have to be consciously aware or able to feel pain or fear in order to possess mechanisms that ensure the survival of the fittest.
The kind of physical pain that all animals know requires a central nervous system. Dismay is an emotion which requires a limbic system in a brain which is, again, part of the central nervous system.”
you keep arguing that just because a plant does not feel, think, experience like an animal that makes it ok to consume plants and to manufacture them in factory like environments. Im baffled. and your argument that politics is only about power and money is equally baffling. Im just saying that due to sympathy, not empathy, you are far too wrapped up into the fear, pain, suffering of animals. solely due to the fact that you can relate to them through your five senses, you sound ready to throw away freedom and genetic diversity for all productive and useful plant species, simply because you are unable to relate. I cannot relate to the life process of a mosquito, yet I can appreciate its inherent worth. just the same I have no problem with killing a mosquito. you see, what puts off more than a few of us is that you care more for animals simply because you can hear them cry and you can see the fear in their eyes, which are so much like yours that you know just how they feel. true I cannot see the fear in the eyes of a plant, but I feel every bit an equal with a plant which I am about to eat as toward an animal I am about to eat, and I dont seperate out the wholesale comercialization and slaughter of one or the other as being better or worse for the world, because they will both bring down mankind and many others with them. that is why your position sounds like so many other politicians, because you fight so fiercely for your side of things when your side of things is going to bring us down (degradation and destruction of our environment) just as fast.
[Reply]
Lindsey Reply:
June 14th, 2009 at 8:18 pm
“you sound ready to throw away freedom and genetic diversity for all productive and useful plant species”
What? I’m dumbfounded here. Will you direct me to where exactly I even remotely implied anything of the sort?
“I cannot relate to the life process of a mosquito, yet I can appreciate its inherent worth. just the same I have no problem with killing a mosquito.”
So you appreciate the worth of something but then you kill it? I’m sure you appreciate your child or pet too. When they become a nuisance to you, would you kill them too?
“you care more for animals simply because you can hear them cry and you can see the fear in their eyes, which are so much like yours that you know just how they feel.”
Let’s say for some reason you were forced to kill one of two humans. One is a perfectly healthy, normal human being. The other has lost the use of all five senses – what we would call a human VEGETABLE. I’m sure you’d rather kill neither, but this is how ethics is developed – by creating nearly impossible, hypothetical situations. Which one would you choose to kill if you HAD to? This is a similar choice to the one we face when we’re choosing between eating animals and plants. Do you choose to kill the one who you know without a doubt fully experiences life in the same way you do and will certainly suffer in the death you inflict upon him or her? Or do you choose to kill the one who will likely not even consciously know the difference that you are killing him/her and will experience no physical pain of any sort? I know whom I and many others would choose, but I intuit that you would say you would flip a coin to choose which one to kill, since animals and vegetables are equal in your eyes. So this argument is likely not even working with you, so let me restate what I said in a previous reply to you. If you are equally concerned about plant life and welfare as you are with animal life and welfare, why do you support consuming secondhand plants in animal meat? Ten times the plants have to be killed in “growing” an animal over you just eating the plants directly. If everyone adopted a plant-based diet, we would be killing FAR less plants and NO animals.
Also, often we eat plant parts, not whole plants themselves, so we’re not always even taking a life to benefit from plant food. As one example, it is in the best interest of a plant for its fruit to be eaten by an animal so that its seed can be spread through excrement. It’s mutually beneficial to the plant and animal kingdom. However, I’ve never come across an animal who could produce parts that it actually offered up freely for you to eat. If you don’t kill a whole plant, they can also regenerate most parts as well. They are extremely adaptable as a food source. An animal? Cut off its leg and see if it will grow back to feed you again. And don’t forget all the blood and terror you have to deal with too.
“when your side of things is going to bring us down (degradation and destruction of our environment) just as fast”
How so? How does raising at least ten times less plants to feed a vegan world degrade and destruct the environment as much as a meat centric diet which uses many times the resources (freshwater, fossil fuels, the crops themselves) over a plant-based diet?
Some reading material for you -
http://www.enviroveggie.com/
http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/06/060413.diet.shtml
http://www-news.uchicago.edu/citations/06/060427.veggie-disc.html
http://www.veganoutreach.org/enewsletter/matheny.html
[Reply]
vegfan Reply:
January 31st, 2010 at 8:51 am
“makes it ok to consume plants and to manufacture them in factory like environments”
…..LOL, oh yeah I’m sure the plants undergo untold suffering in their “factory like environments”.
[Reply]
June 15th, 2009 at 12:00 am
I could quote a bunch of links to show the destructive nature of modern agriculture, but I got bored.
[Reply]
Lindsey Reply:
June 15th, 2009 at 1:47 am
I’m confused. Why are you correlating vegetarians/vegans with the destructive nature of modern agriculture? And how would quoting a bunch of links on agricultural practices have anything to do with responding to some of the moral questions I’ve raised about plants and animals?
Do you not realize that well over the majority of crops grown are fed to animals who inefficiently convert them to edible muscle tissue? It’s not a 1:1 turnover. That’s basic physics – no such thing as a 100% efficient engine. Once again, eating the standard American diet with its meat and dairy requires roughly ten times the destructive practices than if we had a vegan world with no agricultural reformation. Just because one advocates a vegan diet does not mean one is also an advocate for modern agricultural practices, and I have no idea where you got the idea that I or other vegans are pushing for and approving of continuation of these practices. Many vegans are interested in local or homegrown food as well as continuing to improve the planet for all its inhabitants in addition to animal rights.
A vegan world with gentler agricultural practices would be one of the lightest ways we could tread on this planet.
[Reply]
June 16th, 2009 at 7:10 pm
Lindsey – I certainly admire your patience in trying to explain to some (who don’t wish to know) the difference between killing plants and killing animals. Most non-vegans will fight tooth and nail that there is no difference – Yet, I challenge anyone to send the word out to neighbors and friends of two events you are hosting: One – to physically slaughter a chicken or goat, or pig… Or the other – to cut grass and do hedging. Guess what – you’ve got a lot of people volunteering for yard work.
It is built in us to abhor killing animals – yes, because we have empathy with them. In our core values I believe we all know they are earthlings with us. One and the same…
Thanks for inviting comment. And for a great post! :)
[Reply]
Cheeeeeeeeeeeeell Reply:
July 20th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
But…by saying that more people would rather hurt a plant than an animal, because plants don’t SHOW their stress, you’re just agreeing with the idea of conforming to what other people think. Not that I don’t agree with the general ideas you have against eating meat; but please, don’t deny that plants do not feel stress or discomfort or that an animal is more entitled to life than a plant on the basis that plants can’t scream.
Besides…its possible to eat plants without destroying the entire specimen. If you want to be more moral, only eat the reproductive parts of plants (fruits)…and be sure not to eat the seeds!!! Those are fertilized!
[Reply]
June 17th, 2009 at 3:05 am
Brilliant!
[Reply]
June 17th, 2009 at 10:57 am
Fabulous.
[Reply]
June 19th, 2009 at 9:45 pm
[...] Veganise .Me: 13 Reasons Why We Must Eat Meat [...]
June 20th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
[...] Great post from veganise.me on the 13 most popular reasons given for why we “must” eat meat. Everyone loves a good excuse, right? [...]
June 22nd, 2009 at 3:29 am
Lindsey,
Amazing post. I just love all the people that try to nit pick your comments into continuing their justification to eat and consume meat. I admire your passion and intellect when reading your responses to comments made by some particular people.
For those that eat meat knowingly exactly how it was brought to your plate, it would be better for you to just say, “I don’t care.” Don’t try to spin it into a hurricane of attacks and absentminded logic that makes you feel better in contributing to the slaughtering of animals. You simply don’t care about an animal’s life and well-being. Plain and simple.
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June 22nd, 2009 at 4:32 am
I know that meat is greatly misunderstood and thus this article is needed but please don’t take the bible out of context to try and justify it. There are plenty of good reasons to do that with out sticking your foot in your mouth. The only thing you got right on #5 is the part about the bible saying it’s o.k. to eat meat, now whether or not it supports it is another subject. The rest of what you said on #5 was with out knowledge or in another words crap..
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June 28th, 2009 at 2:15 am
OH MY GOD I LOVE THIS
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June 28th, 2009 at 4:46 am
I REALLY wish people would stop bringing up plants feeling pain. They have no heart. They have no brain, spinal cord, or nerves to fee pain. They are made up of cells, and when we cook/cut them, the cells die. But guess what? You just killed hundreds of cells by scratching your arm, or getting a small injury. And cells can’t feel pain either, because they have no nerve cells. And yes, nerves are made up of specific nerves cells- plants have none of these nerve cells.
So I hope some of my ranting made sense, and living a vegan, natural life is the way to do it :)
Lindsey, I admire you so much for this post, and all the defending you do. I’ve read through the other comments, and your responses are better than anything I could have ever come up with!
Your inspiring- I’m a 16 year old meat eater turned vegeterian turned vegan, living in a household of 5 constant meat eaters. I’m always trying to convert them, and this list will end up on my fridge pretty soon!
Keep up the great work!
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June 29th, 2009 at 10:27 pm
I had to write back. you claim that vegans/vegetarians arent arguing for modern agricultural production of vegetables. fine. but you have made just the same kind of assumptions in describing the cost benefit analysis for meat production. I never argued that it was rational to eat factory farmed meat. what I did argue was that eating meat or vegetables was equivalent regardless of your or my sympathy for an animal verses a vegetable. you are calling meat “death on your plate” while failing to see that the vegetables are equally (or soon to be) dead. as for your argument “why not then eat a human”, some cultures happily have, and we dont because religion and the known risks of disease have made it socially unacceptable. if you were raised in cannibalistic society you would happily eat human flesh too. you see, my entire first post/point was not to support the massive consumption of factory farmed meat as is done today (I thought that point had been made very clear) it was that all of these arguments are totally relative and not very relevant to saving the ecosystem. you are sickened by the sympathy you feel for animals. I am sickened by the lack of empathy for all living systems. you will never convince me that I should have sympathy specifically for animals, because A) I engage in empathy, not sympathy (I view sympathy as a counterproductive and destructive bad habit, usually rooted more in our personal relative view of things than in the other beings needs) and B) I see it as just one of the myriad problems in the world today. I, instead, am focused on the more general cause of creating empathy for all living systems, because, when you polemically (like a politician) and myopically focus on the one issue of vegetarianism/sympathy for animal suffering, you ignore the totality of destruction which is still being reaped in your name. namely industrial development of the ecosystem, agriculture specifically. just because eating industrially farmed animals will get us there faster does not mean that factory farming of vegetables will not destroy the ecosystem. it will only do so more slowly. I argued that instead of being myopic we open our hearts to the totality of our ecosystem so that we might learn to live in balance with it. a balance in which the culling of certain animals from wild herds is a natural, important and helpful role for the human population to be engaged in as well as healthy for our diets.
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June 29th, 2009 at 10:40 pm
I found this comment on another site I linked to from the comments and felt it described my position more succinctly.
“Dozens perhaps hundreds of animals are exterminated to grow every acre of crops – birds, moles, voles, rodents, deer – in order to keep said crops safe for harvest for human consumption. You cannot pretend to tip toe through life not harming anything, it just is not reality, nor is it even desirable, as the circle of life and death is the ageless, natural cycle of renewal on this planet.”
well put.
instead of championing the fight for animal rights, take a position which respects the dignity of all living things.
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Lindsey Reply:
June 30th, 2009 at 5:06 am
You’ve yet to offer any conclusive proof that plants experience the same pain and suffering as animals in their deaths. Please tell me how you KNOW this. As I already explained, just because the electric field or certain chemical concentrations in plants vary under stress does not mean that they feel pain. I rather err on the side of something I know for a FACT – that animals can feel and suffer just as I do – than on a mere possibility that plants experience fear and pain in the same ways as animals. This is not just emotion and my abhorrent sympathy talking. This comes from reason and logic as well. Obviously, you didn’t see this in my previous responses.
And how do you KNOW that if we farmed only plants that we would slowly still be leading the planet to destruction? Where are your facts and figures on this? To farm only plants for direct human consumption, far less land would be required. Far less resources such as water and energy would be required. In growing less crops, there is more time for resources to naturally replenish and renew.
One reason that field animals are harmed in modern agriculture is because we have to overfarm to keep up with raising enough animals for the world’s appetite. If everyone were vegan, far fewer crops would have to be produced, leading to slower, gentler, more careful farming techniques. The point of a vegan diet is not to eat grass so that you are sure never to harm a single animal. It is about doing as much as you possibly can to do the least possible harm without harming yourself. At this point, most people cannot grow all their own food and have to sadly accept these deaths so that they don’t have to starve themselves. In the meantime, they can seek to grow more of their own food or buy from local farmers who may have more conscientious farming practices.
“if you were raised in cannibalistic society you would happily eat human flesh too.” Not necessarily, and it’s ironic that you say this to someone who has already shunned cultural norms in her society. I was raised in an animal flesh worshiping society, and I happily refused to continue to partake in the sickening traditions of my upbringing.
Maybe there’s a good reason why most societies don’t practice cannibalism. Why don’t we kill your pets and children for food? After all, they’re no better than a potato. You should throw away emotional attachments that hinder equal opportunity slaughter.
Well, I thought vegans had quite the minority viewpoint. Good luck finding those who will side with you to gladly sacrifice humans and animals to save the lives of vegetables!
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July 10th, 2009 at 2:39 am
Why is it that vegetarians can’t accept the fact that some people are genetically required to eat meat? http://www.dadamo.com/ In point of fact 60% of all of mankind must eat meat. As for me, I not only eat meat, but I hunt and kill deer and elk every season, just like my ancestors.
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Lindsey Reply:
July 15th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
How have all the millions of vegetarians throughout the years survived just fine? Surely not all of them had high carb/starch metabolic types.
I, for one, have a protein type metabolism – the one that you claim requires meat, and it just so happens that many plant-based foods are very suitable for this type of metabolism. You need to get your facts straight. Just because someone might fare well on a high meat diet does not mean that he or she is REQUIRED to consume meat. We are omnivores NOT carnivores. No one dies from being on a well-planned vegetarian diet, even people with high protein metabolisms. The human body is incredibly adaptable and in a state of constant flux. I would bet that a human body could even change its metabolic type in the course of a lifetime based on the type of food consumed and amount of exercise performed. Most importantly, there is NO nutrient in meat that can’t be produced by plants, bacteria, or fungi. All that is required to eat for a high protein type is to eat plant foods in the correct proportion that a high meat diet might give you – watch your protein (high)/fat (high)/carb (low) ratios. When will meat eaters accept the fact that there is NOTHING in meat that can’t be obtained from a non-animal source? And don’t say cholesterol because the body can synthesize its own, so that’s not even an issue.
Just because your ancestors did something doesn’t make it honorable or acceptable. Why are you only picking and choosing to imitate some of your ancestor’s behaviors if you think they’re so great? Why not go live in a cave and forego modern conveniences as well? And as long as we’re at it, let’s bring back the ancestral practice of infanticide so we can be just like them. It’s time to move forward in society instead of regressing to barbaric behaviors.
Also, please research both sides of a health claim before siding with one. Many people have debunked the myth of eating for a certain blood type. http://www.skepdic.com/bloodtypediet.html
http://health101.org/art_blood_type_diet.htm
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July 13th, 2009 at 9:06 pm
[...] w… heatherxxll: The angry vegetarian in me loves this post on why we MUST EAT MEAT!: http://www.veganise.me/13-reasons-why-we-must-eat-meat April 24th 2009 @ 4:15 pm from [...]
July 18th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
I hope this was meant as a joke because your arguments are ridiculous. If you actually believe this then you really need to do some research about a vegetarian diet.
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July 22nd, 2009 at 8:02 pm
I will just educate you on your first statement. Didn’t care to read the rest of your fact less comments.
How about the silver back gorilla. One of the strongest mammals in our planet. Shares 98% of our DNA, and is strictly fruitarian. Get your facts straight, and tell your people, the beef industry, to stop spewing lies.
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Shane Reply:
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:52 pm
The Gorilla is an insectivore not a fruitarian.The back is so well built to rip bark from trees to find insects.
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July 29th, 2009 at 7:05 pm
Oh jeezus your so f’in cutesie. Be a vegan because horses do!
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August 4th, 2009 at 7:17 am
I like meat. I will honestly eat steak for absolutely every single meal if I could. My meals are usually chicken nuggets, mini corndogs, and steak. Those are my favorite foods and I would eat them whenever I could. I am sorry for the mistreatment for animals, not enough to give up my need for it.
And want to know something? If I found that my cat, who I have had for many years, did indeed taste good. I might be tempted to eat her.
I couldn’t eat my own child because they can THINK. Cows do not think. They think of eating, shitting, that kind of stuff. They do not think about how they are trapped in a fence unless it’s thinking of the grass on the other side. We are completely conscious, they are not. It’s true we both have brains but they don’t use theirs.
Feel free to rip this apart, correct my English or something. Prove to me that cows do think. Think that I’m a terrible, horrible, immoral person. Tear that apart for saying that as you commented several times you don’t judge or something.
I wouldn’t mind more vegetables in my diet honestly. I haven’t eaten a fruit or vegetable in… at least 10 years. I can never find any that I can actually swallow. Same thing with fruits. I’m fat, does that really have something to do with the meat? And if you do have suggests, can it be for someone who is a idiot? My vocabulary is limited.
The only one I KNOW I’ve eaten are green beans and I can handle those most of the time. Apples, Bananas, Strawberries. I love all of those but they make me gag so I can’t actually EAT them. At least not without choking myself half the time and making it completely not worth it.
I shall bookmark this site and wait eagerly for your reply ^-^
Thanks for reading, if you did. *Is worried the site might be old and abandoned*
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Lindsey Reply:
August 5th, 2009 at 1:21 am
First of all, there’s absolutely no way to know that animals don’t think. Just because they don’t speak in any human languages does not mean they don’t think. For all we know, cows are smarter than Einstein, but they choose to never talk and instead eat grass all day. Anyhow, there is actually plenty of scientific evidence that animals do think. Pigs can play video games for a food reward. Rats can solve mazes. Gorillas can communicate with humans using sign language. And even if we could prove that animals couldn’t think, the important thing is that they feel. Babies and mentally handicapped people don’t think anything like human adults. Should we kill and eat them too? The ability to think like a human should not be the grounds for moral consideration. What defines morals? Usually, they are tied in with feelings. Morals always have an ultimate goal of maximizing happiness and/or minimizing pain and suffering – both which deal with emotional or physical feelings. Let’s say there is someone who can only think and not feel at all (kind of like an android or complex computer) – no pain, no emotions, no desires – murdering this “person” wouldn’t be so bad (as long as they had no family who could feel emotions and grieve) precisely because there could be no fear, disappointment, or pain, but switch that hypothetical situation around – if someone could not think at the level of a human being but could feel 100%, death would still be a terrifying, painful experience. And that is why we base morals on feelings.
It is obvious that animals feel pain and emotions. This requires far less proof than the claim that animals can think. Anyone who has ever lived with a cat or dog knows that animals have emotions and can feel pain. Animals also have families and care for their offspring, just like humans do. They also show great distress when they or their offspring are in danger, just like humans do. There is even an account of a cat who kept returning into a burning building to carry each of her kittens to safety, even though she was already badly burned.
The thing is we don’t need meat to live. The only reason we kill is for taste. Is it truly worth putting a sentient being through hell (and I do mean hell – http://www.watchearthlings.com) just to have a few minutes of pleasure?
Here is an excellent post that elaborates on the issue of the value of human vs. nonhuman life – http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/peter-singer-and-the-welfarist-position-on-the-lesser-value-of-nonhuman-life/
To address what you said about fruits and vegetables. I understand. I am a vegan (100% of my food comes from some part of a plant), and I don’t love fruits and vegetables. Some are great, but I highly prefer to eat something else usually. The thing is you don’t go from eating meat to eating 100% fruits and vegetables. There are many meat substitutes out there made usually from soy and/or wheat protein – some will fool a lifelong meat eater. If you are overweight, and you eat almost all meat as you claim, that’s a huge contributing factor to your weight. Meat is very calorie dense, meaning it’s easy to eat a lot of calories in the same amount of weight you may eat in plant materials (which are filled with zero calorie water). Your stomach gets full based on volume of food consumed, not on the amount of calories consumed. And excess calories make you fat. Why don’t you try cooking some vegetables into your food like in a soup or casserole? They are much easier to eat that way. I rarely ever eat plain vegetables.
I hope this answers your questions, and you continue to explore the issue.
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Murali Reply:
January 30th, 2010 at 5:30 pm
why don’t you just shut your pie hole rachel. You sound like an illiterate fool.
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August 5th, 2009 at 2:22 am
Believe me, I only eat meat ^^; I might try looking into it though. I was told there’s some kind of mushroom that’s supposed to taste exactly like a steak if it’s cooked right, which sounds really awesome to me.
I’ll try looking into it and figure out ways just to sneak them in. Only time I’ve ever eaten vegetables was raw. Like green beans or corn or something along with the dinner. Although I tried seaweed once with sushi, but the rice kept making my gag so I couldn’t eat that ^^ Do you know any good websites for recipes?
And that cat saving it’s kittens story is really heart-warming. I would love to read that. I’ll try to cut back on my meat, although I’m not sure if I could take it completely out of my diet.
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August 28th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
You know why I eat meat? Plants are alive too, and it’s very very unfair on us to just take them for granted. Being a vegetarian and killing plants and eating them is just as much being a killer as a meat eater…
But this post is very funny. Except pt.12.
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September 17th, 2009 at 5:52 am
The part about human beings being bad hunters because we can’t catch anything is untrue. Research says that human beings were persistence hunters, which means that we hunted prey by pursuing them to exhaustion. Yes a human being can chase a deer to exhaustion, and it’s still done to this day by the Tarahumara indians. So we are not fast but we are better long distance runners than anything else because of our efficient bipedal gate. Also we know that early humans ate meat because at the time that we discovered fire we began to cook our meat which meant that we didn’t have to chew so hard and didn’t need such big jaw muscles. This provided room in the skull for an expanded brain, and the new source of protein provided the fuel, literally brain food.
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October 20th, 2009 at 7:24 pm
What a ridiculous statement…too many farm animals. Golly. There sure are too many idiots in the world for us to surivive this century. There wouldn’t be any farms or farm animals if it wasn’t for humans. there is hardly any rainforest left because South America is mowing them down to make room for beef cattle to supply MacDonalds. I worked in a meat factory once that shipped to the Disney Theme Parks. Disgusting how much meat was being consumed there. I’ve seen people at the parks throw most of their ridiculously huge burger into the trash. We really are the most revolting creatures on the planet. If humans become extinct, perhaps the rest of the plant and animal kingdom has a fighting chance.
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October 21st, 2009 at 9:53 pm
Its great to see all my thoughts on this subject summarised with some good old fashioned sarcasm. I love the list.
Thanks
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October 25th, 2009 at 4:35 am
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/low-carb-library/are-we-meat-eaters-or-vegetarians-part-ii/
Meat eating made us human. The anthropological evidence strongly supports the idea that the addition of increasingly larger amounts of meat in the diet of our predecessors was essential in the evolution of the large human brain. Our large brains came at the metabolic expense of our guts, which shrank as our brains grew.
etc… see full article
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November 11th, 2009 at 12:56 am
I love this! I’ve never been one to push my my vegetarianism on others, but people make these points all of the time! whenever I’m out and order a meatless dish, someone will inevitably bring up one of these arguments to start a fight. I think it’s mostly because a lot of meat eaters assume vegetarians feel superior to them and need to justify why they eat meat, and to prove their lifestyle is better. I don’t think they realize we’ve probably heard it before and are (shocker) still vegetarian. Regardless of why people insist on making my diet into an argument I wish they would just shut up and let me eat my tofu!
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December 10th, 2009 at 8:40 am
Love this!
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December 14th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
I don’t mind triceps having their own day, you could also build in some shoulder work at the same time. You need to allow more time for rest, rather than just Sunday, your muscles grow during recovery. Also, doing fewer than 8 reps with heavier weights is pretty great for mass-building.
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January 13th, 2010 at 3:49 am
I agree with the points about plants having feelings as well, and the part about your anger showing through and ruining your credibility.
And I’d also like to bring up an interesting point.
Say we stop eating meat and switch the plants as a species.
Now we’re competing for the same food several animals already strive to compete for, upsetting the natural order of the food chain and possibly dooming the herbivorous population of animals to starvation (which is already happening in some places because of a lack of population control).
Alright, we’ll grow our own food. Problem solved, right? Nah. We can’t grow anything in the winter time, so we starve.
Greenhouse? Yeah, /massive/ greenhouses. It’s not practical or efficient, especially considering it takes so long to grow plants versus producing edible meats.
You have a right to be vegan/vegetarian, ma’am.
Just as those who chose to take their place as omnivores have theirs.
Respect that.
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January 13th, 2010 at 3:55 am
Also taken from this link: http://beaelliott.blogspot.com/2009/03/live-vegetables-vs-dead-animals-vegan.html
“There is no such thing as “vegan”.
It is an illusion.
Dozens perhaps hundreds of animals are exterminated to grow every acre of crops – birds, moles, voles, rodents, deer – in order to keep said crops safe for harvest for human consumption.
So if one cow dies for my hamburger, several other types of animal died for your veggie burger.
You cannot pretend to tip toe through life not harming anything, it just is not reality, nor is it even desirable, as the circle of life and death is the ageless, natural cycle of renewal on this planet.
Grow up.”
An excellent point. ;)
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January 27th, 2010 at 3:01 am
i dont like the one where it says animals dont have feelings. i think animals have feelings and i think many people agree with me. liek could you look at you dog and eat him? i doubt it.
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January 30th, 2010 at 5:00 pm
Lindsey, I LOVE YOU. That was a brilliant post and your replies to some of the retards here were equally brilliant.
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February 2nd, 2010 at 6:02 pm
I have a feeling I’m the opposite to most people here,as I am completely carnivorous eating only meat and drinking only water. Americans are so very vibrant and healthy from our meat-centric diet, which is why we have the some of the highest rates of cancer, heart disease, and obesity in the entire world.
I would love some evidence to back up that statement,now like most vegans/vegetarians you most likely have no understanding of the human body because if you did you wouldn’t eat the way you do.And when i say evidence i want actual scientific reports, you know,like the ones that attribute the above ailments to high carbohydrate,fructose and hydrogenated fat consumption
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Lindsey Reply:
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:19 pm
What planet are you living on?
Official position of the American Dietetic Association: “Well-planned vegan and other types of vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12778049
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Shane Reply:
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:46 pm
Earth so I’ve been told and I am well aware of the position of the ADA and unfortunately for all it is wrong.Now i believe I asked for evidence,which that doesn’t constitute.
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Lindsey Reply:
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:53 pm
So what kind of evidence are you looking for? That is from a peer-reviewed, well-known scientific journal.
Where are your peer-reviewed studies on your claims?
Who are you to say that every dietitian who supports that paper is wrong?
February 2nd, 2010 at 8:00 pm
So what kind of evidence are you looking for? That is from a peer-reviewed, well-known scientific journal.
Yes that will do.
As for mine the most of them are sitting approx 3 feet to my left.I am someone who has put thousands of hours into the study of human nutrition and modern disease and have concluded, along with many others that vegetarian and vegan diets are not suitable in the long term for humans and that in the majority of cases, will lead to complications later in life.
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Lindsey Reply:
February 2nd, 2010 at 8:04 pm
And what do you make of The China Study? Or the fact that 40% of Indians are vegetarians?
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Shane Reply:
February 2nd, 2010 at 8:24 pm
I will admit I am not very familiar with the china study,however from what i have read of it it consistently presents only half the picture and at some points the author seems to lack any understanding of human biology.ie..the claim that animal products cause type 1 diabetes and that any food with cholesterol is bad for you.
As for the Indians,well what about them exactly? They have on average a shorter lifespan than US citizens, who are very unhealthy for the most part. Now I’m sure this is mainly due to environmental factors and worse health care, but I don’t see what point you’re trying to get across.
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Lindsey Reply:
February 2nd, 2010 at 11:12 pm
This is most likely going to be my last comment on this, since discussing nutrition can be a real time waster – there is no incontrovertible evidence for either a 100% plant-based or a 100% animal-based diet. It’s nearly impossible to prove anything since nutrition is a VERY inexact science with nearly infinite variations between each individual.
However, the standard American diet is very high in meat, and we have some of the highest rates of those above-mentioned diseases in the world. Our life expectancy is also declining or projected to decline. Admittedly, that is a correlation and not a cause, as is any finding in the nutrition world. However, since meat is such a large part of the diet, it is likely to be a contributor especially since there have been studies linking consumption of certain types of meat to certain types of cancers.
My point with the fact of 40% of Indians being vegetarian is to show that it’s not some crazy, fringe diet, and people don’t drop dead just from being vegetarian or vegan.
February 3rd, 2010 at 5:19 am
I am a vegetarian, and sadly I am working on a debate for school in which I must find three good reasons to eat meat. I searched google and found this. Doesn’t support my debate at all, but it made me smile. :) Thank you!
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March 5th, 2010 at 7:31 pm
Great post, cracked me up throughout!
If i get asked why i choose to not eat meat i simply reply ‘Because I’m a difficult ****”. That tends to shut people up :)
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