Comments on: Inside the Mind of an Anti-Animal Rights Philosopher http://www.veganise.me/philosopher-argues-that-the-torture-of-animals-for-food-is-justified Peace begins on your plate Fri, 03 Sep 2010 01:58:54 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Michelle Candaras http://www.veganise.me/philosopher-argues-that-the-torture-of-animals-for-food-is-justified#comment-5323 Michelle Candaras Mon, 28 Jun 2010 20:31:20 +0000 http://www.veganise.me/?p=319#comment-5323 This entire argument doesn't make much sense to me due to one simple fact. The opponents are not tantamount in moral composition. We are unequivocally dealing with one good man and one bad man - and the latter (JN) does little to conceal the stuff he is made of. Narveson offers not one authentic or sensible explanation for his opinions and it is quite plain to see that he is incapable of very basic human emotions. Any qualified psychologist could easily see this individual has the textbook makings of someone with Anti-social Personality Disorder, if he isn't already a full-blown Sociopath. It is well-known that trying to argue with individuals who present with such symptoms or diagnoses is a frustrating exercise in futility. This entire argument doesn’t make much sense to me due to one simple fact. The opponents are not tantamount in moral composition. We are unequivocally dealing with one good man and one bad man – and the latter (JN) does little to conceal the stuff he is made of. Narveson offers not one authentic or sensible explanation for his opinions and it is quite plain to see that he is incapable of very basic human emotions. Any qualified psychologist could easily see this individual has the textbook makings of someone with Anti-social Personality Disorder, if he isn’t already a full-blown Sociopath. It is well-known that trying to argue with individuals who present with such symptoms or diagnoses is a frustrating exercise in futility.

]]> By: Michelle Candaras http://www.veganise.me/philosopher-argues-that-the-torture-of-animals-for-food-is-justified#comment-4028 Michelle Candaras Sun, 18 Apr 2010 18:41:31 +0000 http://www.veganise.me/?p=319#comment-4028 Well, the thing we need to understand, re: LeeAnn, is that there is no such thing as needing animals for nourishment. I am glad that some people still believe that, because that lends opportunity for educating them and allowing them to see the truth. Those people, re: LeeAnn, need to ask and research the claims they make. You will find it is untrue. Not only is it untrue that animals are required for our nourishment, they are actually bad for us. Apex predators need other animals for nourishment, human molecular/digestive systems were not designed the same way. Also, good point, Iro K. Well, the thing we need to understand, re: LeeAnn, is that there is no such thing as needing animals for nourishment. I am glad that some people still believe that, because that lends opportunity for educating them and allowing them to see the truth. Those people, re: LeeAnn, need to ask and research the claims they make. You will find it is untrue. Not only is it untrue that animals are required for our nourishment, they are actually bad for us. Apex predators need other animals for nourishment, human molecular/digestive systems were not designed the same way. Also, good point, Iro K.

]]> By: iro k http://www.veganise.me/philosopher-argues-that-the-torture-of-animals-for-food-is-justified#comment-3739 iro k Tue, 23 Mar 2010 09:40:52 +0000 http://www.veganise.me/?p=319#comment-3739 if i am smarter than you, then can i eat you? if i am smarter than you, then can i eat you?

]]> By: LeeAnn http://www.veganise.me/philosopher-argues-that-the-torture-of-animals-for-food-is-justified#comment-2822 LeeAnn Sat, 30 Jan 2010 06:24:25 +0000 http://www.veganise.me/?p=319#comment-2822 There is this weird "it's just how it is" mindset with me and many others. Animals eat other animals-- it's not an uncommon occurrence. The smarter, more agile animals get to eat the slower, less intelligent animals. It's just how it is. Have you ever seen a baby eagle kill its baby brother/sister to optimize the amount of food he or she gets? Or a hawk scoop up a duckling from a pond? It's just nature, people. Humans are smarter than animals, so we eat them. If animals outsmarted us, they'd eat us-- you can bet on that. It's just a fact of life, people. Now do I think we should unneccesarily torture animals? Of course not. But using them for nourishment is a different matter. There is this weird “it’s just how it is” mindset with me and many others. Animals eat other animals– it’s not an uncommon occurrence. The smarter, more agile animals get to eat the slower, less intelligent animals. It’s just how it is. Have you ever seen a baby eagle kill its baby brother/sister to optimize the amount of food he or she gets? Or a hawk scoop up a duckling from a pond? It’s just nature, people. Humans are smarter than animals, so we eat them.

If animals outsmarted us, they’d eat us– you can bet on that.

It’s just a fact of life, people. Now do I think we should unneccesarily torture animals? Of course not. But using them for nourishment is a different matter.

]]> By: Lydia Fettig http://www.veganise.me/philosopher-argues-that-the-torture-of-animals-for-food-is-justified#comment-2653 Lydia Fettig Fri, 15 Jan 2010 12:14:04 +0000 http://www.veganise.me/?p=319#comment-2653 I teach a class about the relationship between animals and humans and would love to have my students listen to this clip. I would like to know more about it though--what was the context for the discussion? When and where did it take place? Please contact me! Thanks so much. fettig@american.edu I teach a class about the relationship between animals and humans and would love to have my students listen to this clip. I would like to know more about it though–what was the context for the discussion? When and where did it take place? Please contact me! Thanks so much. fettig@american.edu

]]> By: Trishula http://www.veganise.me/philosopher-argues-that-the-torture-of-animals-for-food-is-justified#comment-2177 Trishula Thu, 17 Dec 2009 15:56:17 +0000 http://www.veganise.me/?p=319#comment-2177 Although JN says that we shouldn't put forth marginal cases as a counter argument, I would still wonder why not. Forget children as children do indeed have a potential to be moral and rational agents. But,however, what about the mentally retarded ones? The ones that can never recover their mental stability for the rest of their lives..? How about replacing them for vivisection purposes? Or how about doing anything to them that is done to the animals..? I don't care if its a marginal case.. All I know is that these kind of mentally handicapped people are as good as the animals and so probably should be treated the same way as the animals are, if we are to believe the claims of people JN. Although JN says that we shouldn’t put forth marginal cases as a counter argument, I would still wonder why not. Forget children as children do indeed have a potential to be moral and rational agents. But,however, what about the mentally retarded ones? The ones that can never recover their mental stability for the rest of their lives..? How about replacing them for vivisection purposes? Or how about doing anything to them that is done to the animals..? I don’t care if its a marginal case.. All I know is that these kind of mentally handicapped people are as good as the animals and so probably should be treated the same way as the animals are, if we are to believe the claims of people JN.

]]> By: Trishula http://www.veganise.me/philosopher-argues-that-the-torture-of-animals-for-food-is-justified#comment-2176 Trishula Thu, 17 Dec 2009 15:50:34 +0000 http://www.veganise.me/?p=319#comment-2176 What I never understand about the arguments provided by Jan Narvenson kind of people is that, they suggest that an animal has no right to life, or that it's interest towards the quality of its life is immaterial for the only reason that they aren't moral agents. They claim that rights can be enjoyed by only those beings that can respect and reciprocate to such rights. According to them, Now since animals aren't capable of making moral judgments / decisions nor can they understand or respect the rights of humans, they automatically lose their chances of enjoying any such rights or be able to pursue their lives. Now this is a defected argument I feel. This is what is speciesim and a clear showcase of moral and intellectual superiority. A simple reason for why animals shouldn't be subjected to torture or be treated as a property of the humans is for the fact that they are capable of mental and physical suffering, and that many animals do infact have a concern over the quality of their lives and sometimes even a pursuit of lives. This is beyond just an instinctive survival. Although animals aren't (atleast so far) capable of building rockets and sky scrapers, they do possess minimal and sometimes impressive intelligence..and upon training they get even better! Animals have an EQ. Somehow all of these factors are simply just irrelevant to let them live their lives. What I never understand about the arguments provided by Jan Narvenson kind of people is that, they suggest that an animal has no right to life, or that it’s interest towards the quality of its life is immaterial for the only reason that they aren’t moral agents. They claim that rights can be enjoyed by only those beings that can respect and reciprocate to such rights. According to them, Now since animals aren’t capable of making moral judgments / decisions nor can they understand or respect the rights of humans, they automatically lose their chances of enjoying any such rights or be able to pursue their lives. Now this is a defected argument I feel. This is what is speciesim and a clear showcase of moral and intellectual superiority. A simple reason for why animals shouldn’t be subjected to torture or be treated as a property of the humans is for the fact that they are capable of mental and physical suffering, and that many animals do infact have a concern over the quality of their lives and sometimes even a pursuit of lives. This is beyond just an instinctive survival. Although animals aren’t (atleast so far) capable of building rockets and sky scrapers, they do possess minimal and sometimes impressive intelligence..and upon training they get even better! Animals have an EQ. Somehow all of these factors are simply just irrelevant to let them live their lives.

]]> By: What It Should Really Mean To Be Libertarian (*Ahem,* Jan Narveson) | Veganise Me http://www.veganise.me/philosopher-argues-that-the-torture-of-animals-for-food-is-justified#comment-187 What It Should Really Mean To Be Libertarian (*Ahem,* Jan Narveson) | Veganise Me Thu, 30 Apr 2009 18:28:58 +0000 http://www.veganise.me/?p=319#comment-187 [...] recently posted a debate between animals-as-property abolitionist Gary Francione and libertarian philosopher Jan Narveson. I [...] [...] recently posted a debate between animals-as-property abolitionist Gary Francione and libertarian philosopher Jan Narveson. I [...]

]]> By: Lindsey http://www.veganise.me/philosopher-argues-that-the-torture-of-animals-for-food-is-justified#comment-143 Lindsey Sat, 25 Apr 2009 04:37:33 +0000 http://www.veganise.me/?p=319#comment-143 Wow. This JN guy is super stubborn and is grasping at every thread to justify his meat habit. Good thing he looks like a heartless bitch. I have understanding for people who have been brought up eating meat and don't know how to stop or even the people who have some kind of good intentions in wanting humane meat, but this guy goes so far as to say it's OK to torture an innocent being for its whole life even when it's completely unnecessary??! Disgusting. All I have to say is this guy will have some seriously bad karma for not caring one bit about innocent creatures. I'm all for getting intellectual and philosophical, but to use intellect and philosophy with the exclusion of any compassion or empathy is atrocious. I love his dumb "moral" excuses - like the animals can't communicate to us. Bullshit they can't communicate to us! What about their cries and their facial expressions and movements? I have nothing else to say because someone like that is beyond hope. Wow. This JN guy is super stubborn and is grasping at every thread to justify his meat habit. Good thing he looks like a heartless bitch. I have understanding for people who have been brought up eating meat and don’t know how to stop or even the people who have some kind of good intentions in wanting humane meat, but this guy goes so far as to say it’s OK to torture an innocent being for its whole life even when it’s completely unnecessary??! Disgusting. All I have to say is this guy will have some seriously bad karma for not caring one bit about innocent creatures.
I’m all for getting intellectual and philosophical, but to use intellect and philosophy with the exclusion of any compassion or empathy is atrocious. I love his dumb “moral” excuses – like the animals can’t communicate to us. Bullshit they can’t communicate to us! What about their cries and their facial expressions and movements?
I have nothing else to say because someone like that is beyond hope.

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