Friend

Let me start by assuring you that I never come to conclusions on an issue–never toe a moral line–without an almost excessive amount of deliberation, and even then, my mind is never fully made up. That is why I love discourse like this between two people who can civilly debate in the hope that both will come out better than they started.

It is for this reason that I’ve decided against my original idea of posting a contiguous essay (the first draft of which clocked in–unfinished–at over 11 pages), because I do not simply want to be seen as trying to bury the issue in words. I’d much rather argue fairly brief, focused points that I hope will garner response, which, in turn, can be responded to.

I also have to say that, though we disagree, I have incredible respect for your position. It really is nothing short of courageous to be empathetic beyond the realm of your species. I consider myself an extremely open-minded person and have always found it easy to empathize with those of other genders, races, cultures and religions, but the extra-species gap is one I haven’t bridged.

I do want to state that my perspective of our species is not grounded in any sort of us-and-them morality. I very much understand your closing point–that we as humans are animals. But at the same time, we both know that we as humans are far removed from anything else in the animal kingdom. Which is how I’d like to begin.

I. The Division

“Animals are people too!”
–PETA bumper sticker (that spins Wittgenstein in his grave)

All rational people can agree that humans are animals. But does it suffice to say that all that it is to be human is defined by that fact?

I believe we are agreed that it does not. In fact it seems that the crux of the most ambitious argument put forth by those who believe that humans and animals should be equal, actually depends on our differences.

To understand it’s implications, it is important to examine the definition of “equality” in this context, which seems to be: “humans should treat animals the way that humans treat humans, and furthermore, this is necessary because we as humans are ourselves animals,” or, “equal treatment for equal beings.”

To try to reduce this to a simple, logical statement yields something like: “because humans are animals we should treat animals as humans.”

Phrasing it this way perhaps does not make it sound less noble, but it does illustrate the main problem hidden in the simple and optimistic perspective that animals should be regarded as equal to humans: it is inherently illogical.

Now, one could argue that simply because the statement is illogical does not mean it dose not propose a good idea. Conversely, if we only concern ourselves with only making a logical statement, we could conclude: “because humans are animals we should treat humans as animals,” yet one would be hard pressed to say this is a good proposal.

Why is this?

Of course, the reason is because humans have invented a system of ethics that roughly outlines the expected way that humans should treat other humans. This is one of the innumerable assets of humans’ highly evolved cognitive abilities that sets us apart from the rest of the life on earth. To fully illustrate the degree of this separation, of course, would involve discussion of the whole of our culture, civilization, art, language, literacy, invention, and many, many other areas that fall under the far insufficient label of “reason.”

Animals do not reason, and therefore do not have a system of ethics. I do not make this obvious statement as evidence that they should not have rights, but because of the consequences: animals, ungoverned by conscience, are speciesist. Because animals are hardwired by natural design to preserve their own species, those that are carnivorous or omnivorous, in the majority of cases, do not subsist on members of their own species. They mate within their species to propagate it, and eat outside of it (we can surmise) to preserve it. Completely without a highly-cognitive ethics system, lions treat lions the way ethical humans treat humans. Lions do not, under normal circumstances, kill other lions for food, but instead go a step down in the food chain. So really, our fancy ethics are innately serve the same purpose as much simpler instincts that are exemplified all throughout nature.

To argue this simple truth, I expect, would be frustrating to a supporter of equal-rights for animals. After all, lions could not be expected to consider the ethical ramifications involved in killing similar but unrelated species for food, but it could be argued that humans can and should recognize them. To restate this in a more specific way, it could be said that because human beings are highly evolved and have developed an ethics system to preserve our own species, it is our obligation to defy our innate speciesist tendencies and extend our ethics system to include other species. Whether they should or shouldn’t will be debated later, but we’ve arrived at the point I wanted to make: the argument that animals should be treated as equals to humans depends on acknowledging the extreme extent to which this is demonstrably not the case, and is, therefore, self-defeating.

And so, I reject the idea that because humans are animals, it is necessary to treat animals as humans and instead posit: “because humans are animals, humans should treat animals the way animals treat animals: with more regard for the lives of the members of their own species than the lives of other species.”

Now, it may be counter-argued that this rationale declares “reason” to be the defining characteristic of what/whom can be considered a human being, and therefore humans who cannot reason cannot be defined as human. However that is not the case.

Because we, the other members of the species can reason, we can identify a member of our species even if that member cannot identify himself in that way.

Whether this is done empirically (that being was born of two human parents, and is therefore human) or by scientifically interpreting biological data (his DNA is consistent with the characteristics of human DNA) is irrelevant, reasonable members of the species would identify the non-reasoning member as their own.

So really, the claim that animals deserve to be respected as humans, if based on the fact that we are all animals would have to be phrased: “humans are dissimilar with all other animals, and therefore should treat other species in a dissimilar way than other animals treat other animals” (in other words, “don’t act like animals”). However, that just moves the debate to a new point, should the dissimilarity in treatment be that we treat animals like our own species, or to use them to benefit our species in a unique ways?

Me

Well, I don’t have a very detailed counterargument, but I wanted to make sure to respond, since you have put so much thought into this.

First I would like to thank you for respecting my position, and I certainly respect yours since you have so deeply thought about this. I really appreciate that, since so many people won’t even take ten seconds out of their day to think about any issue. You really put forth an interesting argument. I sooo appreciate your use of logic into coming to your opinion instead of just basing it on some blind acceptance of religious principles or adherence to cultural norms like so many people do. Thank you for putting thought into the issue, and I hope you will continue to.

Let’s set aside the whole issue of legal animal rights for all animals everywhere.

The issue to me, moreso, is that we are routinely treating animals in horrific ways. I would like to extend your comparison of the actions of humans and animals. Taking the speciesist lion as an example again, predatory species kill animals only of other species, yes, but they instinctually do so in ways that quickly kill the animal. The way we kill our animals is actually much LESS humane than the way predatory animals do, and much worse, we imprison billions of animals for their whole lives, unlike the predator-prey relationship in the wild where the animals are free to roam for their entire lives. So in that light, humans could be considered as LESS than animal. I know that an animal is not making a moral decision about the way it kills and doesn’t imprision/torture its prey; it’s just its instinct, but I think this is still an interesting comparison.

Reason can be used for great good or great bad, and I don’t see why we shouldn’t use our ethical senses to continue to expand our compassion for any being who can feel and suffer instead of just using it to justify brutal actions. If nothing else, we should at least give protections to those animals that we have domesticated over the ages. These animals often cannot act in a speciesist way because they’ve been assimilated into the human world. We AT LEAST owe some kind of protections to them, since WE made the decision to remove any speciesist leanings these animals have, such as the tendencies to more aggressively defend themselves against us. To tie in what I stated in my other note, we have essentially created innocent, harmless beings who can feel and love just like very young human children and babies, but we give little or no legal protection to these beings. I apologize for using some subjective terms here, but I care less about the logic and more about just trying to inspire compassion in humans for animals. I feel that if reason and logic is one step above our less evolved origins than growing our compassion and following our highest conscience is the next step of evolution for the human race.

I must also point out that what you state about members of a species regarding the lives of their own as more important than those of other species cannot be a hard and fast rule. As a quick example, a family dog will fight off another dog who might be about to attack a member of its human family. In this case, the dog holds the human life higher than one of its own species.
So if this flimsy rule is one’s sole justification for the continued participation in the exploitation of animals in numerous excruciatingly painful ways, maybe it would be time to find a more solid one?

November 6, 2008 -

My friend, whom I have known since I was about 3 or 4 years old, sparked quite a bit of conversation this morning with his status….

Friend

And don’t get me started on how, in California, animal rights apparently outweigh human civil rights.via Twitter

Lindsey

I wouldn’t call what those animals got in return for the passing of that proposition “rights.” Just a BIT less horror and discomfort in their short, tortured lives for the overfed gluttons of this country. Even if you do endorse the exploitation of animals, don’t you believe that they somehow deserve at least a little less inhumane treatment?
Perhaps you aren’t implying you are against what Prop 2 did, but I don’t think you can compare the two propositions – since Prop 2 really didn’t give those animals any rights. They are still innocent, emotional, sentient beings who remain prisoners and cannot live their lives as they will.
But I do think that’s crazy that the human civil right to which you refer got overturned.
I guess as we treat our animals, so we treat our people we feel are sub-humans.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not for more animal rights and less human rights. I am for more human AND animal rights equally.

[personal comments removed]

Friend

[personal comments removed]

Let me first clarify my position and say that I was hopeful that both prop 8 and prop 2 would pass. [I think he actually meant to say he was hopeful Prop 8 WOULDN'T pass, as in he's pro gay marriage.]

It seems, though, regarding the animal rights issue, that we disagree on two fundamental issues. First, what are the rights, exactly, to which animals are entitled, and secondly, is ensuring these rights to animals AS IMPORTANT as ensuring human rights?

To the first question, I will have to assume based on your above comment and what I know of you personally that your position is that animals deserve the same, or nearly the same, rights as humans. Therefore, in regards to the second question, you likely believe it is self-evident that ensuring animals’ rights and human rights are of essentially the same importance–in fact, are nearly the same issue.

I know this is a brief synopsis of a stance on a nuanced issue, but do I understand your opinions and position well enough for the purpose of argument?

Lindsey

You are correct about my position on the issue of animal rights. I believe they deserve nearly the same rights as humans. Of course, I don’t believe they should have the right to vote or the right to own property and silly stuff like that, but I believe they should be treated just like human children should be treated – with respect and love. Children don’t have full rights like adults, but they are granted protection from harm and death by the law. And luckily we do at least have legislation against harming pets, but it is not nearly enough. People who purposefully harm an innocent being, child or non-human animal, need to be punished equally. Pigs have been shown to be as intelligent as 3 year old children and more intelligent than dogs. How can we just say – “because you can’t talk, and because you don’t look like me, I am going to imprison you in the most deplorable conditions and kill you for food”? Who has the authority to place a value on what life is more valuable than another? Animals have feelings and families just like us. The only difference between humans and animals is a rational mind, and some people may say that humans are superior because of that. However, many mentally challenged people do not have the ability to rationalize either, and a lot of people would find it deplorable to say that they are inferior beings because of their mental state.
It is not anti-human to be pro-animal. The more we can increase our consideration we have for animals, think of how MUCH more consideration we will have for humans. Sometimes animal rights activists appear as though they are anti-human, but they feel that animals are SO neglected by society that they have to ignore all else and put their LIFE into doing all they can do to further those rights. To them, we have a worldwide slave trade going on. Animals are legally regarded as property and nothing more so. Pets can be taken away just like children can be taken away for maltreatment, but farm animals have nearly no legal protection. They can be treated like garbage, and half of the baby chicks in the egg industry ARE garbage. They throw them alive into grinders or let them suffocate in the trash. How sad is that? How is that different from doing that to a baby? A human baby is an innocent, harmless being, and so is a baby animal. There is just not time for animal activists to be worried about higher rights – such as civil rights. At least any people lacking higher rights aren’t being exploited and tortured right now. As soon as animals’ basic physical comfort rights are taken care of, we (pro-animal people) can then move more of our efforts toward advancing higher human civil rights.
So you see, both of those types of rights in question right now are nowhere near on the same level. If we ever do get humans and animals to the same level, then so-called animal rights activists will be the first ones to push for human civil rights just as much. By the way, many animal activists are largely in support of human freedoms. (I receive emails on human rights issues, e.g.) They are just so passionate about the animal side and consumed by the urgency of the situation that it appears that they don’t care.
Even if people do admit to animals needing more rights than they have (or don’t have) right now, then there is the whole circle of life argument where people say death is a part of life. That is true, but why should we have the right to decide who lives and who dies – human or animal? Also, I can understand people who say that hunting animals for food is natural, and I agree – that it is when you are living in the wilderness (although, I wouldn’t do it or endorse it), but factory farms (where 99% of animal products are produced in this country) are despicable and anything but natural. PLUS, we have an amazingly abundant, variety-filled food supply which makes it easy to find alternatives to torturing one or more animals just for one’s dinner. I’ve been animal product-free for almost a year now, and I hardly notice the difference between my diet now and before, and it is sad that so many people are under the illusion of needing their meat, dairy, or eggs, and even sadder if they are not under that illusion and need it just because they like the taste.
Anyhow, that was kind of going off on a tangent, but it’s somewhat relevant since food is one of the major reasons for animal exploitation.
So I think you can see that I believe that humans and animal rights are equally important because humans ARE animals – sentient beings with the desire to live…

Edit: So it’s really ironic that I just happened to get a proposed Animal Bill of Rights from the Animal Legal Defense Fund in the mail today.
Here are the rights they are pushing for.

• The right of animals to be free from exploitation, cruelty, neglect, and abuse
• The right of farmed animals to an environment that satisfies their basic physical and psychological needs [although I don't believe that animals should be farmed, but at least this would be a step in the right direction]
• The right of companion animals to a healthy diet, protective shelter and adequate medical care.
• The right of wildlife to a natural habitat, ecologically sufficient to a normal existence and a self-sustaining species population.
• The right of animals to be freed from cruel and unnecessary experimentation and testing.
• The right of animals to have their interests represented in court and safeguarded by the law of the land.

Those aren’t too outrageous, right? I think people run at the mention of animal rights because they are very fearful that we are trying to make animals more important than people. No – just trying to give them equal consideration in terms of the right to a free and natural life. Now, show me somewhere that humans are kept in the conditions that animals are kept in, and I will say let’s take care of that and give that just as much importance as changing the conditions for animals. The thing is we have already guaranteed these very basic things to humans, so why shouldn’t we extend it to animals?
ALSO, people run because animal activists have been given a bad name by a just a few crazies that get all the press. Not all of us, in fact, most of us are normal, non-militant people who see an egregious social injustice occurring.

[end Facebook note]

Stay tuned for part 2 of 2 when Friend comes back with an interesting argument.